FrankenFerrari engine

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PackardV8
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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by PackardV8 » Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:19 pm

I'm in awe of the fabrication and the welding. You're pressure testing everything, but that many feet of weld with no leaks is a miracle.
I'm not sure how you guys do it but I really struggled with end balancing the rods. I found a write up and a youtube video that talked/showed hanging 1 end of the rod and setting the other on the scale......but I could never get close to the same answer twice using that method. Thinking it was just me I had a buddy come over and try...same result, like +/-5g or so.
Yep, it's just you. Your method is way more labor-intensive and to my eye, more difficult to get it to repeat. Properly done, with a correctly engineered jig, hanging one end of the rod and weighing the other should repeat to less than a gram every time and mine always does.
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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by mk e » Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:36 pm

PackardV8 wrote:I'm in awe of the fabrication and the welding. You're pressure testing everything, but that many feet of weld with no leaks is a miracle.
Thanks.....hopefully they all hold when I fire it up!
I'm not sure how you guys do it but I really struggled with end balancing the rods. I found a write up and a youtube video that talked/showed hanging 1 end of the rod and setting the other on the scale......but I could never get close to the same answer twice using that method. Thinking it was just me I had a buddy come over and try...same result, like +/-5g or so.
PackardV8 wrote: Yep, it's just you. Your method is way more labor-intensive and to my eye, more difficult to get it to repeat. Properly done, with a correctly engineered jig, hanging one end of the rod and weighing the other should repeat to less than a gram every time and mine always does.
Really???? I duplicated a rig I saw on youtube exactly...I thought and could just not get a good result because any slight offset caused a different reading. That may have been the scale I was using just HATED the slight side forces....I could bump the rod with my finger and BAM1 new number. what i ended up with was definitely more work but good to 0.2g. Had I got the under 1g error you're seeing I ould have never done anyhting else.

Curious.....how good do you like to get the rods? Porsche and Ferrari both use 4g match sets for over-all weight but no spec I know of for end matching so I just kind of made them the best I could without crazy amounts of grinding/sanding.
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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by mk e » Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:00 pm

The waterpump on this engine was chain driven off....but that seemed a great place to put 2 stage oil return pump
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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by mk e » Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:05 pm

The new oil pump plan left me without a water pump :(

I grapped a nice pump on ebay for a ford I think it was and got out the saw and welder.....BAM! Ferrari pump :)
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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by KnightEngines » Sun Dec 14, 2014 11:00 pm

You are mad.

In a good way tho.

I've cut shit up & welded it into something different quite a few times, but the amount of welding & sheer labour hours in this is mind blowing.

Best of luck, hope it works out pretty damn awesome.

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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by BigBlocksOnTop2 » Mon Dec 15, 2014 10:25 am

Hats off to you! I thought I use to dig into stuff.

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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by Notchback » Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:18 pm

Wow! Following this.

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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by mk e » Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:59 pm

Time to install valves and cams!

I couldn't find spring shims that fit very well so I said f**k it and welded than to the lower spring seat....that's what I get for putting suzuki valve train in a ferrari I guess, slick setup though and about 1/2 the weight of the stock shim over bucket ferrari stuff. I got the exhausts done but needed to order more shims for the intakes and some how I'm missing keepers for 1 valve, so a day or 2 deal before the heads can go on the engine.
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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by mk e » Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:05 am

7 years and 1 month of kicking and screaming after the 2v heads came off kicking and screaming (ferrari engines tend to weep coolant into the head stud area casing the heads to corrode and lock to the studs) the 4v heads are finally on!
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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by PackardV8 » Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:04 pm

Beautiful workmanship.

It is to be hoped your fabricated water pump works as good as it looks, but just for future reference, that's where I'd have gone with a Stewart electric pump.

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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by mk e » Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:12 pm

PackardV8 wrote:Beautiful workmanship.

It is to be hoped your fabricated water pump works as good as it looks, but just for future reference, that's where I'd have gone with a Stewart electric pump.
Thanks...and something like the stewart electric is definitely the fall back plan! I did a mechanical because I was (probably foolishly) worried about the flow rate of the electric pumps which are about 1/3 what the mechanical pump was rated at....before I cut it all up and rejiggered that is :)
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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by mk e » Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:52 pm

A big weekend. The timing case is on, everything turns, and the cans are degreed. Its come a long way from the days when nothing fit together and I think I can officailly call it an engine at this point :D

edit: I'll add instilling that silly cover took 11 frikin hours and that had nothing to do with anything I did...that's the the way they designed it. Partially do this while holding that and then install this nut.....it was awful. Then when I thought it was done the engine would only turn backwards ...WFT???? I got it narrowed down to the timing chain itself, restrung the chain and then it was fine....I still have no idea what was going on.

Horrible job. Sure made the hour per cam it took to get them dialed in seem smooth and painless though :)
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Last edited by mk e on Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by mk e » Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:20 pm

While doing the cams I realized that while I had setting on 102/110 lobe centers the timing parts might have other ideas :shock:

The way the setup works is there are 15 holes in the sprocket and 16 in the cam so moving the pin moves the cam, then there are 23 teeth on sprocket so jumping the sprocket gives you whole new set choices to look at.

Anyway I was able to get 103/109 on both banks and called it good enough thinking anything in the 102-104/108-110 range would probably do...but that got me thinking what tolerance I should allow? I spent some time on dynomation5 this morning and it looks like 101-103/108-110 is pretty good....so I don't need to change anything I did yesterday today \:D/
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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by mk e » Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:52 am

The engine is pretty much done so on to the drop gear case which is the last remain item I'd consider major and I have 20 hours planned for it....I think the 1st hour will be burned trying to remember where I left off.

The V12 is longer than the V8 so the ends both stick out a bit. No real problem on the engine front, but at the flywheel the whole drop gear stuff becomes a mess. Using a hydraulic throw-out bearing and custom flywheel and then a matching shorter clutch shaft I was able to save about 1" but the rest had to come the hard way....cut and weld.

Since I was cutting and welding anyway this was the point I decide it was a good idea to also rotate the the drp gear case to allow the engine to sit about 3" forward and 2" lower than the V8 because the narrow 60 degree V gave me lots of room to the firewall and I planned to dry-sump it anyway so shortening the pan was not an issue....you know, since I was already cutting and welding.

I also needed to extend the trans shaft. Making a whole new one is a huge job so I decided to follow the Goldsmith lead and just extend the gear out. Now while he welded the gear to the hud and I heard had some issues with that setup, I designed a bolt together setup (that may or may not explode).

Now, on the blower engine with 450ish ft-lbs torque I found 1st gear pretty much useless and the V12 is supposed to make over 500 ft-lbs. So, as long as I was messing with the trans gear and clutch shaft I decided it would be a good idea to swap the the 2 gears and put the trans gear on the clutch and the clutch gear on the trans. This is good for a 23% change in drive ratio and puts 1st gear almost to where the stock 2nd gear was.

Great!...no wait.... that means the idler gear is in the wrong place so that has to move too, but whats a little more cutting and welding right?

It looks like I left off with a new boss welded in the the bellhousing/drop gear case and the center located but it needs to be machined for the bearing.

I also decided to add an outboard bearing to the trans gear so the cover needs bosses for both the idler and trans gears. I also looks like I left the trans gear hub oversized a few thou so that needs to be finished.

The 1st day of spring is exactly 2 months away
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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by mk e » Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:39 pm

Just because I obsession over stupid sh*t that has nothing to do with actually finishing this project or making it go faster........

Rather than make billet cam end covers and just get it done I got a buddy to agree to cast covers for me so they look like the factory 400i covers but fit the TR heads.

Then I got another buddy to help me with an emblem for the car. I'm going to replace the the "quattrovalvole" with a front/size/design matched "gemellocattivo" which means evil twin in Italian and I find very funny after all the effort I put into making everything have a factory-ish look.

The designs are done and parts should be ready in a couple weeks :)
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