FrankenFerrari engine

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mk e
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FrankenFerrari engine

Post by mk e » Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:58 pm

I read WAY more here than I post but you guys might get a kick out of this...my "FrankenFerrari"

About 7 years ago now I had a the GREAT idea to take an '80s Ferrari V12 which was a 2v engine, add '80s 4v heads fron a Testarossa (flat 12) and stuff it in a 308 (V8 car, transverse engine and the trans IS the old pan)

....what a mistake but it's nearly done now! I think
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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by mk e » Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:02 pm

I'm not so sure I trust what dynomation5 is telling me about the hp but I guess it'a at the high end of possible (BMEP = 16.2 at hp peak and 17.8 at torque peak) so maybe.

Hopefully it will finally run this spring and then I'll know :)
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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by PackardV8 » Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:11 pm

Definitely will be one-of-one. I can appreciate doing it the hard way, but that's haaarrdd!

Naturally, the seven years wasn't full time, but if someone asked you to build another, how much would you quote him parts and labor?
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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by Kenova » Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:06 pm

Ferrari parts and a reciprocating saw on the same bench. That's priceless. :lol:
I'm guessing you are getting good at welding aluminum castings. :wink:

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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by mk e » Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:48 pm

Kenova wrote:Ferrari parts and a reciprocating saw on the same bench. That's priceless. :lol:
I'm guessing you are getting good at welding aluminum castings. :wink:

Ken
Yeah....that because I was about to use that sawzall on those Ferrari parts to separate the dropgear house from the bellhousing portion of the casting :shock:
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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by mk e » Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:51 pm

PackardV8 wrote:Definitely will be one-of-one. I can appreciate doing it the hard way, but that's haaarrdd!

Naturally, the seven years wasn't full time, but if someone asked you to build another, how much would you quote him parts and labor?
Tough question!

I think I'm about $40k into it parts wise at this point and .....2000ish hour right now with 200-300 left to go maybe so....$250k???
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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by mk e » Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:26 pm

Here's something I'm not really sure is valid.

Way way back when I first started the head work I did some quick math for how much flow I needed and set out to get it.....it was really hard but I got it.....then I realized I'd used a rwhp flow number not a crank flow number and I had 20% more air than I needed and the simulator said the engine wanted to spin 20% higher than I'd planned.

I played with the cam timing (102/110 vs 110/114), intake length (15" vs 11") and headers a bit and got the hp peak down to 9500 vs 11000 the more optimal tuning produced. I'm really not sure it will react to the changes the way dynomation is saying as experience with other types of optimization software has taught me that it's way easier to predict what is optimal will do than it is to predict what odd combinations will do.

Its going hit the rev limiter either way but getting everything there is to get before that happens is the goal.
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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by mk e » Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:29 am

Here's the making of the cams. My original plan was just use the TR cams with the TR heads...but the TR firing order is different from the 400i so new cams. Also the TR used timing belts and the 400i a timing chain so the new cams let me put the 400i nose to hold the sprocket on the TR cam.

I used 8620 I got from mcmaster. Ferrari oils the cam bearing by pumping oil through the cams so they had to be drilled....what a pain that was. A buddy with access to a CNC lathe roughed them for me and then Web Cams ground and heat treated them.

The valve to valve spacing in these heads was 36mm which kind of limited the intake vavles to about 31-32mm.....so as long as I was making billet cams I changed it to 38mm to fit 34mm valve. Stock lift was .305" and I upper that to .452/.420 and increase duration from 220 to 242/246.
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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by mk e » Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:18 am

Here's a little more on the intake ports. Stock flow was 93cfm (at 10") and many hours later the finished flow is 156(at 10") with the intake and TB in place
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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by mk e » Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:34 am

The intake manifold was a bugger just like everything else. I'm using Ductai 999 TBs which are 54mm and were too wide to fit the 94mm bore spacing so they had to be cut down, re-bushed, and then custom TB-to-TB linkage made.

The intakes are top plate, bottom plate then curved, tapered, ovals.
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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by mk e » Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:47 pm

I'm not sure how you guys do it but I really struggled with end balancing the rods. I found a write up and a youtube video that talked/showed hanging 1 end of the rod and setting the other on the scale......but I could never get close to the same answer twice using that method. Thinking it was just me I had a buddy come over and try...same result, like +/-5g or so.

Not happy with that I played around with a few ideas and settled on the one in the pics below. This set up was repeatable to +/-0.2g and both me and my buddy got the same results so I called it good and balanced the rods.

What I did was:
balance the caps - I found a lot of difference here
balance the bolts - they all matched within 0.1g when I checked them so pretty much perfect.
balance the big ends as shown
flip around and match the small ends
balance the rods it total
Recheck everything

The final result was under 3g total difference on the big ends and small ends . 0.2g total difference over-all. Probably way better than means anything but my time's free to me and I can be a little OCD at times....
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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by 4sfed » Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:33 pm

How much current are you able to push through that micro torch? Water cooled I presume?

Thanks,

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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by mk e » Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:59 am

4sfed wrote:How much current are you able to push through that micro torch? Water cooled I presume?

Thanks,
Its a wweldcraft WP-125
https://www.arc-zone.com/index.php?main ... v85co3gli2

it's rated at 125A DC or 80A AC but that is with the cheap glass gas cups, it's 160DC/105AC with a quarts cup, .....but it doesn't actually completely melt until about 150A AC. The higher you go on amps the fast you destroy the expensive collets and gas cups though so I try to have at least 5 or everything on hand and pre-heat the snot out of the head before I start working.
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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by 4sfed » Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:21 am

mk e wrote:
4sfed wrote:How much current are you able to push through that micro torch? Water cooled I presume?

Thanks,
Its a wweldcraft WP-125
https://www.arc-zone.com/index.php?main ... v85co3gli2

it's rated at 125A DC or 80A AC but that is with the cheap glass gas cups, it's 160DC/105AC with a quarts cup, .....but it doesn't actually completely melt until about 150A AC. The higher you go on amps the fast you destroy the expensive collets and gas cups though so I try to have at least 5 or everything on hand and pre-heat the snot out of the head before I start working.
I didn't know you could use that much current with the quarts cups . . . but $40 ea. :shock: You're not kidding they're expensive. My WP24 doesn't seem as awkward to use as it did a few minutes ago.

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Re: FrankenFerrari engine

Post by mk e » Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:07 am

4sfed wrote: I didn't know you could use that much current with the quarts cups . . . but $40 ea. :shock: You're not kidding they're expensive. My WP24 doesn't seem as awkward to use as it did a few minutes ago.
Did you look at the price of the collets? :shock:

I have a wp24 as well and you're right, its WAY easier to deal with than the mini torch. I have a couple difference gas cups for it that I've ground to help get into tighter spots....but if that doesn't work the mini is the last hope.
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