AMC 327 - 443 XRV8

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amcenthusiast
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AMC 327 - 443 XRV8

Post by amcenthusiast » Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:26 pm

Welcome again to more show and tell about this 443 CID stroker version of AMC's Rambler 327 V8.

Thank you to everyone here at SpeedTalk forum; even if you are an 'other make' enthusiast hopefully you all can still enjoy this thread if only for the novelty and rarity of such a thing: seen any DIY welded steel stroker cranks lately?

...after you read this message, the engine will automatically self destruct... ?

Anyway, I really learned to like this engine for it's everlasting personality when I bought a '65 Rambler Marlin for $100.

(the car was in a catastrophic flood; yes that was a Marlin that went for a swim under water)

To make a long story short, after doing what was necessary to fire it up, it started, clicked right into gear and I had a running car for the next three years.

I even ran that Marlin at Sacramento Dragway just for fun (same 'floodwater special' engine) and the car ran 16 second ETs 89 mph...

...better than the magazines said the car would do way back when the car was new!

I also learned to really like the engine because the way it goes together; nice big SAE bolts and nothing tricky -just a tough, easy to work on, straightforward-honest engine design... a person can basically overhaul the whole thing on the side of the road with only a simple toolbox.

This is AMC's first V8 engine. When Nash-Kelvinator and Hudson merged in '54, they debuted this engine design in '56 only two years later. The engine was made during 'the Rambler days' and carried the reputation of AMC on it's shoulders all the way through the Automobile Manufacturer Association ban on factory supported racing from '57 to '62.

If this engine showed any weakness or had any durability problems, it is not hard to imagine that AMC would have not survived all their intense competition from 'the big three'. Rather, Rambler V8 earned a good reputation and pulled the weight of the company until it was retired for the newer emission control style '66-'91 AMV8 design (the one most 'other make' enthusiasts already know about)

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XRV8 Race Parts > for AM's '56-'67 Rambler V8: http://amcramblermarlin.1colony.com/favorite_links.html

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Re: AMC 327 - 443 XRV8

Post by amcenthusiast » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:49 am

I really like the design architecture of this engine, but the average estimate of nearly any casual observer is that 'it's big and heavy' -implying it's a bad choice because it's overweight.

So I've made an extended effort to prove the various weights of this engine's components, if only to prove to myself what is true and what is not.

Long story short, I have photo evidence to prove the engine's components are not excessively overweight.

The block itself is an excellent example, weighed on a typical inexpensive bathroom scale this '64 327 block weighed 178 lbs. -which is about two pounds lighter than SBC Gen1 block generic weight (180 lbs.) and only about 25 lbs. heavier than an aftermarket aluminum Mopar RB block!

Anyway, since power to weight ratio is of the essence, as is proving the engine's worthiness for a higher performance type build up, I wanted to see how much weight I could trim off the block ~anyway~ regardless of what other people think.

I make up my own various philosophies while doing work like this (I bet most people do) ...in this case, I'm telling myself:

'If one does no exceptional work, how do they expect exceptional results?'

Also 'if you're not doing the best you can do, what are you doing?'

So wherever I could remove a noticeably useless blob of iron on the block, I did, to increase the engine's inherent power to weight ratio.

I enjoy doing stuff like this -I think it's fun -for the mystery -for the challenge -just to see what kind of result I can get, all the while knowing 'it all adds up' = every gram, even if it's one gram at a time, they're all cumulative, and in the end, I just might wind up with an engine that has a drastically? increased power to weight ratio. (without making any other modifications) ...depending on how 'terrible' or 'horrific' the stock casting really is...

here's a few before and after pics:

[img
64blkpf.jpg
][/img]

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XRV8 Race Parts > for AM's '56-'67 Rambler V8: http://amcramblermarlin.1colony.com/favorite_links.html

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Re: AMC 327 - 443 XRV8

Post by amcenthusiast » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:40 pm

Next group of pics showing block before and after:

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XRV8 Race Parts > for AM's '56-'67 Rambler V8: http://amcramblermarlin.1colony.com/favorite_links.html

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Re: AMC 327 - 443 XRV8

Post by amcenthusiast » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:50 pm

sorry for pics in reversed order... before and after:

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XRV8 Race Parts > for AM's '56-'67 Rambler V8: http://amcramblermarlin.1colony.com/favorite_links.html

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Re: AMC 327 - 443 XRV8

Post by amcenthusiast » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:11 pm

Taking all the blobs off and chamfering all the sharp edges make the block a lot nicer to handle on the work bench... I always brush on an anti-rust treatment like 'Oshpo' on the fresh ground areas to prevent instant oxidation...

-gotta go dredge up a few more pics before I show and tell about installing block filler...
XRV8 Race Parts > for AM's '56-'67 Rambler V8: http://amcramblermarlin.1colony.com/favorite_links.html

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Re: AMC 327 - 443 XRV8

Post by bigblockmopar » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:24 pm

Cleaned up nicely. Are you keeping track of the amount of weight you removed?
I usually dull most of the sharp machined edges as well on the engine blocks I build for myself.

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Re: AMC 327 - 443 XRV8

Post by amcenthusiast » Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:52 pm

Yes I weighed this block before I got started and it weighed 178 lbs.

I was able to trim 5 lbs. of iron off the block & took it down to 173.

The combination of 'short fill' block filler and boring the block .050" three times took it up and brought it back down again to it's final weight of 173 lbs.

Here's a few more pics of the stock block, if only for the sake of familiarity or comparison to other engine block designs.

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XRV8 Race Parts > for AM's '56-'67 Rambler V8: http://amcramblermarlin.1colony.com/favorite_links.html

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Re: AMC 327 - 443 XRV8

Post by amcenthusiast » Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:11 pm

Since Rambler V8 engine design is typically described as 'overweight', I consider weight removal as part of the challenge.

So the entire block is preened inside and out.

I found that by using a Power shot digital camera, I could see 'around corners' inside the crank gallery and spent a lot of time detailing the windowed main webs using a flex shaft rotary tool.

-the surrounding iron, around the windows, is about 1/2" thick.

(as far as I know, only the 4bbl 327 Rambler V8 blocks have solid main webs)

Here's looking through three detailed main web windows using the camera to double check my work:

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XRV8 Race Parts > for AM's '56-'67 Rambler V8: http://amcramblermarlin.1colony.com/favorite_links.html

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Re: AMC 327 - 443 XRV8

Post by amcenthusiast » Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:18 pm

Showing work in progress, detailing inside the crank gallery.

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XRV8 Race Parts > for AM's '56-'67 Rambler V8: http://amcramblermarlin.1colony.com/favorite_links.html

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Re: AMC 327 - 443 XRV8

Post by amcenthusiast » Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:37 pm

The stock cast iron Rambler V8 timing cover weighs about 14 lbs.

So I spent some time on it ...just to see if I could make any difference... not much to remove (minor weight savings only -maybe 1/2 lb. removed one gram at a time 'here and there')

The idea of getting better oil quality by interior paint work is partly offset by reduced heat transfer from the oil to the backside of the water pump; 'cool' water coming into pump is to it's backside, affording direct engine oil cooling/heat-thermal effect inside the timing cover.

I hate the idea of rust contaminating the engine oil.

After thoroughly detailing the timing cover inside and out, it's painted inside and out to match the block also:

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XRV8 Race Parts > for AM's '56-'67 Rambler V8: http://amcramblermarlin.1colony.com/favorite_links.html

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Re: AMC 327 - 443 XRV8

Post by amcenthusiast » Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:48 pm

Showing detailed timing cover to block fit quality 'after':

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XRV8 Race Parts > for AM's '56-'67 Rambler V8: http://amcramblermarlin.1colony.com/favorite_links.html

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Re: AMC 327 - 443 XRV8

Post by amcenthusiast » Sat Nov 11, 2017 3:55 pm

Here's two 'after' pics taken after pressure washing the block, after block fill and after it got overbored ...to re-prep it again, for final paint!

Showing final weight:

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XRV8 Race Parts > for AM's '56-'67 Rambler V8: http://amcramblermarlin.1colony.com/favorite_links.html

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Re: AMC 327 - 443 XRV8

Post by amcenthusiast » Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:09 pm

This block got re-painted interior three times!

Since stock red interior paint is obviously enamel (same factory paint as exterior)

I just used white enamel for interior repaint.

It's done #1 to prevent rust inside the engine/better oil quality #2 for a 'light bulb' to help me see inside #3 for faster oil return to pan; maintain higher oil level in pan during operation

The product of all my hard work/end result just prior to final assembly:

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XRV8 Race Parts > for AM's '56-'67 Rambler V8: http://amcramblermarlin.1colony.com/favorite_links.html

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Re: AMC 327 - 443 XRV8

Post by amcenthusiast » Sat Nov 11, 2017 4:13 pm

Show and tell about block filler process next! (as promised before)
XRV8 Race Parts > for AM's '56-'67 Rambler V8: http://amcramblermarlin.1colony.com/favorite_links.html

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Re: AMC 327 - 443 XRV8

Post by amcenthusiast » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:52 am

The name "XRV8" means 'experimental Rambler V8' because there are not enough examples to form any believable statistic to prove Rambler V8 can be poked and stroked to make Rambler V8 into a large CID race engine.

I was to measure the stock 4" cylinder wall bore thickness: .25" (1/4" thick cylinder walls)

Going by what others recommend for Ford FE for minimum wall thickness, I decided to go with a 4.155" piston which leaves approximately .1725" cylinder wall remaining.

When I discovered this bore size can be repaired with centrifugally cast iron HP .125" thick sleeves for Cadillac 429 or AMC 401 (to re-sleeve the block) that sealed my decision to go for max overbore.

Boring the block .050" three times demands block filler to keep wall rigidity at expected max rpm.

Going by the cutaway view of the engine (posted above) I decided to install block filler into the water jacket up to the bottom of the lowest welch plug on each bank.

After reading all info I could find on Internet about block filler... I learned there is much variety of opinion, even confusion, about installation method and what type of material to use.

On the topic of block filler, I believe I have much more to say, boosted by much confidence after testing my results in this example.

Preparation began with careful pressure washing and rinsing the water jackets out with muriatic acid...

Of course, the block filler was installed prior to having the block overbored for increased rigidity during the machining operation.

First pic (more show and tell on block filler topic next):

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XRV8 Race Parts > for AM's '56-'67 Rambler V8: http://amcramblermarlin.1colony.com/favorite_links.html

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