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Pinion Nut Torque?

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Pinion Nut Torque?

Postby SideWinder » Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:55 am

Pulled the pinion support to do a little clean-up and painting. I'm putting everything back together and "someone told me" that the pinion nut torque(nut that holds the coupler or yoke to the pinion) was critical. I did not pull the pinion out of the pinion support. Everything is still shimmed properly just need to bolt the pinion support into the carrier and install the coupler (dragster style coupler). Do you torque the nut? How tight?

Thanks for the help!!
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Re: Pinion Nut Torque?

Postby ChiTownHustler » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:28 am

SideWinder wrote:Pulled the pinion support to do a little clean-up and painting. I'm putting everything back together and "someone told me" that the pinion nut torque(nut that holds the coupler or yoke to the pinion) was critical. I did not pull the pinion out of the pinion support. Everything is still shimmed properly just need to bolt the pinion support into the carrier and install the coupler (dragster style coupler). Do you torque the nut? How tight?

Thanks for the help!!


Anytime the pinion nut is loosened you should replace the crush collar. They are a 1 time use part. There is no real set torque you just tighten until you get the desired rotational drag in in.lbs
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Postby SideWinder » Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:04 am

CTH

Are the crush collars available at most parts stores? Is the "desired rotational drag in In/Lbs" something you just feel or is there a more precise way to do it?
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Postby Mark Workman » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:59 pm

SideWinder wrote:CTH

Are the crush collars available at most parts stores? Is the "desired rotational drag in In/Lbs" something you just feel or is there a more precise way to do it?


I never tried buying the collars from a parts store, but the OEM dealers (at least around here) always have them.

Years ago, I made a very light beam-style torque wrench (0-25in-lb, 1/2" drive), and calibrated it by hanging a couple of weights off of it. I used it the first couple of times, but the proper "feel" was pretty easy to learn. If you want the best, Snap-on makes a "Torquometer" for mucho $$$.

A word of caution: It takes an ungodly amount of torque to crush the sleeve (that's why it's called a "Jesus!" nut), but once the bearings start feeling the pre-load, tiny angular movements are all that is required, although the effort doesn't change. It's very easy to go too far; buy a couple of crush sleeves.
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Postby Speedbump » Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:38 pm

If you use a solid shim spacer instead of a crush sleeve, which most builders would in your application, I torque the nut to 175 ft. lb. and use red loctite. If you use a crush sleeve, and you need to determine which method the original builder used, you need around 10-16 inch pounds of preload on used pinion bearings. It could take up to 300 ft. lb. to get that preload, but usually around 200 in my experience.
If you are not using a solid shim kit, you should seriously consider doing it at this time. It's way more predictable, stronger and, in my opinion, makes the assembly easier. You still need the same in. lb. bearing preload, but you simply add or subrtract shims to get it right. A good inch pound 1/4 drive torque wrench will give you the rotational measurment you need and use a test nut or old pinion nut to do your trial assemblies and use the real nut only on the final assembly. (after you've shimmed to the proper in. lb. preload. Good luck
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Postby ChiTownHustler » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:08 pm

Speedbump wrote:If you use a solid shim spacer instead of a crush sleeve, which most builders would in your application, I torque the nut to 175 ft. lb. and use red loctite. If you use a crush sleeve, and you need to determine which method the original builder used, you need around 10-16 inch pounds of preload on used pinion bearings. It could take up to 300 ft. lb. to get that preload, but usually around 200 in my experience.
If you are not using a solid shim kit, you should seriously consider doing it at this time. It's way more predictable, stronger and, in my opinion, makes the assembly easier. You still need the same in. lb. bearing preload, but you simply add or subrtract shims to get it right. A good inch pound 1/4 drive torque wrench will give you the rotational measurment you need and use a test nut or old pinion nut to do your trial assemblies and use the real nut only on the final assembly. (after you've shimmed to the proper in. lb. preload. Good luck


Yes completely forgot to mention that. Ratech ( ratecheng.com ) makes solid pinion bearing spacers that come with shims. Then you usually tighten to 125-150 ft.lbs and check the rotational torque. Usually it is around 25 in.lbs. with new bearings and maybe 15-20 in.lbs with used bearings. You can use the regular crush collar but they are a PITA and the solid spacer makes the rearend stronger. Most NAPA or Carquest stores will have the OE crush sleeves in the Dorman/Motormite HELP lines
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Postby gmrocket » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:39 pm

i've never reused or installed a new crush shim when setting up new or used gears. as far as i know its in there for quick production line set up,,they just use a big air or electric tq wrench&tq to a big spec number which is much easier than trying to finese an inch lb set up.

you have two options, you can leave it in&reuse your old nut with loctite. then use an air impact gun to creep up on the desired, used bearing, 10in lbs to turn setting.

or you can pull the seal&chuck the crush sleeve in the garbage and just creep up on the preload much easier,,which is still 10in lbs

this should be done with the axles out&most of the thick rear lube drained out.
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Postby banjo » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:53 pm

I too did not used a crush sleeve in my rearend. I have over a 1000 trouble free passes on it. Just did like gmrocket suggested. I checked the rear recently and everything looked great.

Good luck
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Postby Racerrick » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:30 am

Always install a crush sleeve or a spacer with shims. Do not leave it out. It there for a reason. The engineers spend millions of dollars designing parts and the bean counter spend all there time trying to cut cost off the part or eliminate it all together. Any part like a crush sleeve that makes to production is there for a valid reason. The purpose of the crush sleeve it to hold the bearing firmly and parallel to each other on the shaft. The sleeve allows full nut torque to be reach thereby hold the everything in alignment. Loctite is not a replacement for a crush sleeve IMO it a mickey mouse way.
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Postby allblowdup » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:25 am

Back in the old books when changing a pinion seal they said to centre punch the nut and pinion end. The when reinstalling it tighten the nut 1/8 of a turn tighter. I am not saying I agree with this in your application but I had done it many time in the dealership(production).
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Postby RCJ » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:42 pm

If I remove the crush sleeve and mic it will that be the right dimension to cut a solid spacer to?
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Postby af2 » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:48 pm

RCJ wrote:If I remove the crush sleeve and mic it will that be the right dimension to cut a solid spacer to?


Cut it .020 shorter so you can shim to the correct pre-load.
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Postby bevans6 » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:16 pm

Just a thought - whenever I replace a crush sleeve with solid spacers (which I seem to do for wheel bearings often) I like to make sure the shims are at least .100" or thicker (in increments of .001" or so to get the correct preload). The thicker shims stand up to a lot more crush without disintegrating.
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Postby SideWinder » Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:08 am

Last night I put the coupler back on the pinion. I tightened the nut (lock type nut) until it bottomed against the coupler. Just a hair more and the bearings started to show resistance. I backed-off the nut until it was free from the coupler, tightened it again until it bottomed against the coupler, and then just a couple more foot pounds of torque. I did use red loctite on it. I don't have a rotational torque wrench/guage. I do have several standard type torque wrenches.
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Postby Speedbump » Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:41 am

Any torque wrench that will measure in inch lb. that low will work. Most of them, however, ar 1/4 drive. That means using two adapters to get the wrench(1/4 dr.) to fit the socket(1/2 dr. 15/16 or so) that fits the pinion nut. Turn the pinion nut with the torque wrench and see how much torque it takes to turn the pinion, BY ITSELF. Easy on a 9 inch, tougher on others. If I read you correctly, you are guessing on the pinion nut torque and the preload. PLEASE DON'T! They are important. In my opinion, with your dragster application/speed, you are putting yourself AND the guy in the other lane in danger, especially on the top end. Do this right!
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